What happens when your ego cracks open
By Amanda Cookson & Ken Blackwell
“I’ll say it took me about 10 years to really find the path that got me out of that hole that was created by success.” said Dan Kirby, CEO and co-founder of The Tech Dept. Dan was the guest last week on the kick off episode of Season 2 of Leaders in Conversation last week.
Leaders in Conversation is a series of discussions with big-hearted leaders where we explore the possibilities and challenges of being human in a digital workplace. Season 2 focuses on the messy complexity and uncomfortable side of being human with leaders that help us look at success through the lens of failure.
We asked Dan to share his experiences and insights from his journey.
I set up my first business in 2001. I hadn’t done any training in business or entrepreneurship or anything like that. We just had an idea and we set up a company. In those days it wasn’t called a start-up, it was just a small business, and it was very, very unglamorous.
It was a branding business, we did a lot of work in digital and worked on some very high profile projects in the video games industry. We worked with all the big Marvel and DreamWorks titles. We won Tony-s. I was young, the business was very successful and we went out a lot to celebrate our success.
I got very good at getting drunk, partying and making people have a good time. I figured that was my role. You know the party fun time guy. But fast forward a few years, I had my first child, I started to not sleep and I hit a brick wall. I went to Ibiza, came back with pneumonia and that was the start of a very difficult 10 year period for me where I think the pneumonia was really my body saying “timeout, you can’t sustain this punishment and I’m going to stop you in your tracks”.
About three years ago, my current business was flying. I’d just been awarded the most innovative dude in the area. So on the face of it, I’m Mr. Golden, but at the same time that award happened, our business was struggling. I haven’t quite learned the lesson that my body tried to teach me when I was in my 30’s.
I was on self-destruct; stupid behaviour fuelled by alcohol, impacted on my personal life and business life and created a whole series of crises.
It was at this point that I think my ego decided to crack open, because that’s the real journey of my life. I have had an exciting and interesting career but it broke me. I needed to go into burn out twice for me to actually learn the lesson.
For some people breakdown just leads to further breakdown they just go into the abyss and they’re never able to pull themselves out.
What was it that enabled you to come back from the abyss?
I think by my ability to ‘Get over myself’. To stop and accept that I may have a successful career; but there’s loads of stuff that hasn’t worked out right. It’s the equivalent of tripping over while sprinting. You fell, you smashed your face, you can’t hide that. You have to accept.
David Brooks, in The Second Mountain describes the moment of being at that low point in a really beautiful way. He describes success in terms of two mountains. The first is fame and wealth and the second is about serving others and finding a higher purpose. When you’re in the valley between the two mountains you’re either broken or you’re broken open.
If you’re broken; you become resentful, bitter and angry. You don’t learn the lessons, you carry on with bad habits and you become a bitter old man. For me, in that moment of darkness I surrendered. I accepted that I didn’t know what I was doing. I need to rethink. And at that point of acceptance I became broken open.
Through my mistakes I have found a path to a better version of myself. It was a kind of death and rebirth. A death or a letting go of ego and past identity. This point in time was chaotic, we lost a lot of money and nearly lost the business. It was humbling. When you’re in this space you have to work out where the solid ground is and what you must leave behind. It’s tempting to cling to the past and wish that things weren’t different.
What I learnt was that you’ve got to embrace reality and deal with what it is; not what you want it to be. If you don’t do that, that’s when you’re in trouble. Making money, fame, awards and recognition is great, but it’s not what life is all about.
Ken Blackwell shared a story with Dan about a rabbi named Dr. Abraham Twerski , who described this change through the metaphor of a lobster.
As the lobster grows it starts to hit the edges of a shell. And there’s a lot of pain with that. To grow the lobster needs to burst out of it’s old shell and leave it’s casing. Then there’s this period of time where the lobster is quite vulnerable, it hides under rocks and takes shelter. Finally, the shall hardens again. And, then they’re there until they grow to the limits of that shell and then have to burst through it again. If you’re trying to hold on to that shell, you’re just going to just get squeezed on the inside. And this just as a process that never ends.
How have your experiences shaped you as a leader?
The idea of service to others has really shaped the way I lead. At The Tech Dept we try to engender a culture that’s open and everyone can contribute to the development of the business. The problem is, when you’re the boss guy, when you’re the guy with the capability of firing others. People see you coming into the room or discussion like a loaded gun. This is a real challenge for any leader or manager. To counter it, you need an ongoing practice of humility. I will say to everyone don’t worry, just say what you think. But openness is a difficult culture to develop.
I like the idea of an upside down organization chart or management as a service. So instead of the triangle coming to a point with me at the top because I founded the company; Me and my business partner Rick are at the bottom of the triangle in that sharp point because if we’re not strong the whole business collapses. As a service leader I coach, encourage, train and support my team; who, in turn, support their team who in turn sport the juniors. We are all serving and supporting each other and our customers and community. That’s the inverted triangle.
Letting go of my ego has meant I don’t need to be the one with all the best ideas and I don’t pass the buck. If my team doesn’t understand something I’ve said, that’s my fault. If my team can’t deliver against an output, that’s my fault. If things aren’t happening in the business, that’s my fault. This extreme ownership means I help my team succeed by serving them, finding out what they want and then helping them get that.
Being Human at work
There is a fear that if we are not that ‘professional self’, we will be looked at in a negative way, it will harm our ability to win business and to succeed at work. However, I’ve found the opposite is true.
It’s very easy in a conversation not to be open and to maintain the illusion of your ‘linkedin’ persona. But what lockdown has shown me is that we are all real people, with kids and lives and dogs and problems and mental health.
If you want to build trust with people, start by sharing yourself. Be open, be vulnerable. If you pay honesty and trust forward; people will reciprocate with trust. I just do it; in meetings I’ll say, look, I was diagnosed with depression, which I was six years ago, and blah, blah, blah. And people lean in and think wow, this guy’s told me something actually real. And afterwards people invite me to lunch, because they want to talk more. I think the depth of relationships I am developing now are all because I have opened up and shared my real self.
How has lockdown changed your business?
Lockdown was one of those moments again where everything broke; the kaleidoscope smashed. It’s really difficult and scary, but it’s also filled with opportunity.
‘In lockdown, lots of stuff’s just gone. It’s really challenging, your plans are ripped up. You can’t go out and see people. But acknowledging that and then scanning around, scraping through the rubble, you may find some stuff that’s actually really interesting.
‘For 20 years, I have gone out, met people and tried to secure business. But in a lockdown, you can’t do that. So I thought, I’ve got to do something because It’s all going to go to hell. So I ended up talking to my existing customers. In fact I had one conversation with a customer at the start of lockdown and I just asked them why they choose to work with us as a company. What he told me completely changed the proposition of our business.
‘By talking to my team more, my team started getting better. By talking to my customers more, I understood them better, we could design our services better and because of this our customers started spending more money.
My experience of nearly losing the business in 2017 was awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone but it has been helpful in: enabling me to look for the positives, even in times of catastrophe; I’m not talking about blind optimism, but if 99% of everything is shit then that means 1% is okay It’s easy to get consumed in the emotional state and all the bad stuff, then miss the diamond in all the rough.
The benefits of working remotely
‘To cut a long story short, I think that I have probably spent about 30% of my career doing stuff that was unnecessary.
‘Emotionally, it’s really satisfying to be on a train to an important meeting. To pitch to a large corporation for a large contract feels great, but much of it would come to nothing. And I’d also go to networking events, most of them never came to a hill of beans.
‘We’ve changed our focus to work with business owners and specifically small business owners to help them look at their entire technology.
‘As a result, I find it more purposeful, but it all came from looking through the rubble, from staying calm in that environment and listening to what’s actually being said, not just what I was scanning for them to say so I can sell them something.
‘if I can find a way to help a guy who’s got a company with 10 people become a company with 20 people: that’s really meaningful work for me.
‘I now exist in the cloud. We don’t have an office. We found that the lockdown really helped us to communicate better. There are no negatives to being remote.
Avoiding burnout
‘Remember that you are the asset. People forget the fact that they are the important thing; and instead they prioritize the business. The mission, the team, the customers, the fundraising, all this other stuff is not as important as your mental health and personal wellbeing. Putting work first is precisely the wrong way to look at it.
‘If you burn out, you can’t do your job. If you had a Lamborghini and you never took it to the garage and you didn’t fill it with the right fuel it would break.
‘And your business if it fails? Doesn’t matter; your life and you as an individual human are more important than that. Your health and your relationships are more important than your business.
‘Secondly, listen to your body. When your body is saying, ‘Hey, Dan stop drinking so much and working all the time’ don’t just drink more coffee and convince yourself it’ll be fine.’ Listen to your body, because it will be sending you messages and respect what it says. Maybe have an early night or go to the gym or something.
‘That’s what I didn’t do. And I was wrong, but I needed to learn that lesson.
‘You’ve got an asset, which is of incalculable value. You can’t build another one of you. If your incalculably valuable asset has red lights flashing on its dashboard, don’t ignore it or think ‘it’s not important. Take it seriously.’
When I was coming out from burnout I co-founded the getahead festival to help others avoid burnout and shared my thinking and resources to help people overcome burnout.
If you want to carry on the conversation with Dan you can connect with him on Linkedin or Twitter.
You can watch the full interview here
Who are the hosts
Amanda Cookson and Ken Blackwell are the trans-Atlantic co-hosts of the web series Leaders in Conversation. To find out more about the series, its speakers and take a deeper dive into the themes, join the Leaders in Conversation Linkedin Group.
Amanda is a Coach and Founder of Northern Value Creators and is based in the UK. You can connect with Amanda via Twitter @AmandaCookson and on Linkedin at AmandaCookson.
Ken Blackwell, based in the US, is a speaker, facilitator and coach and CEO of InKlaritas. You can connect with Ken via Twitter @K_Blackwell and on Linkedin at KenBlackwell
